Pitchfork: When Switch and Diplo worked on your first album, they weren't that well-known. But now Switch is working with Beyoncé and Diplo is doing songs with Usher. It's like pop has caught up to what you guys were doing.
S: When my first record came out it was some weirdo shit on the side. Five years later, it's mainstream. It's cool because maybe more people will be ready to hear what we're doing now. But it's also challenging because I keep having to come up with better shit with way less. I remember when Switch went to work on Beyoncé's record. I actually had done some writing with Beyoncé before that-- I played her "Pon De Floor" video and she was like, "That's amazing." But I was working with Switch at the time and I was just like, "OK Switch, we're working tomorrow?" And he was like, "Actually, I'm working with Beyoncé." And I called up Jay Brown and said, "I introduced you to Switch," and he was like, "Loyalty to the Roc." I was like, "Loyalty to the Roc?! All right, will you manage me?" That's not really how it went down, but I switched management to Roc Nation several months later. Obviously, Jay-Z is a total visionary, and they have a great sense of how brands should work now. Because music is a brand-- I'm a brand, among other things. I mean, records don't really sell much. I'm an artist who wants to do many things.
Pitchfork: So did you introduce Beyoncé to "Pon De Floor", which she later sampled on "Run the World (Girls)"?
S: I'm the first person that showed her the video for sure. Beyoncé's awesome. You can see her trying to grow and push boundaries while not leaving her audience behind. She wants to learn what else is going on in music, while all want to be huge pop stars. It's like: "Let's switch!" Well, not really. I've thought about that a lot, and I could easily be like, "Can someone write me a huge pop song so I can be like fucking Rihanna?" I tried writing with a big pop writer for this album, but I just can't do it. I have to write my lyrics. I'm only going to do music if I enjoy it and I'm proud of what I'm doing. Nowadays, people just churn out these records, but they're not really making art. They're making pop records. There's a difference. And I think a lot of young people who didn't grow up with a whole lot of real music don't know the difference.